Tizen Developers

I agree on all points. Even mega company like Samsung can't create another mobile OS without struggling for years

The others have no chance although Jolla just launched a handset in Hong Kong!

Jolla launch headline (The 3rd mobile OS is here!! ) .. Give me a break :)

Microsoft spent billions on dev and buying Nokia and their sales have declined this year to 2.5% only!

Tizen can do it if it proofs it is safer than other OS.. Chinese OEM increased our privacy concerns .. Xiaomi admitted they were copying users contacts lists without permissions and Singapore started today investigations about this company products

Google Spying,  NSA spying and Chinese Spying! I wonder whose's next?

Tizen can do well in EU, Russia and Asia, if it is more secure and If Samsung can find chinese partner willing to make cheaper Tizen phones

I believe that most of the mobile phone users don't care is Tizen OS is more safe or not. Don't know either what makes you think it would be more safe then other OSes. The thing is, that Jolla smartphone is there on the market, they are small company but they made the innovative OS and a smartphone, they are selling it already, people are buying it, and developers are developing apps. The wheel is rolling. And what about Tizen OS? We are just waiting... and waiting... and waiting... and we know nothing. Developers activity rises above zero only when next app challange is there with huge prizes. But why should I develop an app if I don't know if anyone anywhere will use it, as I don't know if there would be any Tizen smartphone there on the market before the end of the World...

Mobile phone users don't even know what an OS is. It's all about marketing and gigantic budgets. Even Microsoft is swallowing huge losses on hardware:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9248422/Microsoft_s_money_pit_Surface_has_lost_1.2B

A startup like Jolla has zero chance in the mobile market, mark my words.

So why would people choose Tizen phone over any other smarphones? oh wait, there are no Tizen smartphones on the market, so there is infinitly greater chance they choose Jolla then Tizen smartphone! Okay, but lets stay in the Tizen's favourite "world in the future" - why people might choose smartphones with Tizen over any other smartphones?

I'm an economist but I'm not going to give you a marketing lesson. In a nutshell: people buy Samsung devices, not an OS:  https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/Devices

Startups are great for devs: better communication, better tools, they are better in everything except that have not a single chance in the world to survive in the mobile phone (hardware) biz. It's even going to be very difficult for established players.

So the plan is to replace Android with Tizen and hope people wouldn't notice? Please, remind me how huge hardware manufacturer Google is, and how huge hardware manufacturer Google was when Android started to become the world's "must have" mobile OS?

This is my last post.

Android has +-90% worldwide market share, which is almost a monopoly. Samsung is the only player which can change this dramatic situation. Will they succeed ? It's going to be difficult because Samsung is also the n°1 Android OEM = internal conflicts etc.

It's OK to have thousand linux PC distros but to have one mobile distro is going to be very hard, that's for sure. Tizen is a drop in the ocean for Samsung/Intel, it's part of their R&D budget. But startups like Jolla ? Forget it.

"A startup like Jolla has zero chance in the mobile market, mark my words."

What will be the measure of Jolla's failure? They are a small company with around 100 employees, they do not need to ship the huge numbers Samsung will with Tizen in order to be a viable business. Furthermore, if the volume of business from their cooperation with 3 is large enough to see Sailfish OS starting to appear on generic OEM hardware then we could see the beginning of some real momentum for Jolla.

Regarding business sense who, apart from Samsung, has made consistent profits from their Android devices over the last 5 years? Now even Samsung's profits are coming under pressure from Huawei, Lenovo and Xaiomi. These companies don't have a secondary source of income from their devices - i.e. an 'ecosystem', Google controls that.

Huawei have been flirting with Yandex.Kit which replicates Google's services but cuts the manufacturer in on the app sales revenue. Samsung have been trying to integrate their own services into Android and beavering away in the background with Tizen. The Android race to the bottom is gathering pace and each of the big players knows they need another source of income from their devices other than the razor thin margin on the original sale.

On top of that barely a week goes by without yet another significant security vulnerability being discovered in Android, it's a shocking mess of an OS. Amongst my friends, family and colleagues who are not smartphone enthusiasts Android is almost universally detested. Most people don't choose Android, it's just what you get when you buy a reasonably priced mobile phone now. Of course the kids like the games and the teenagers like WhatsApp but I've heard from Jolla users there's very few Android apps that do not run well in Sailfish's Android compatibility layer and I understand they're sandboxed too.

Amongst the documents released by Edward Snowden was a powerpoint presentation giving the timeline of when each of the major US software multinationals were recruited to the Prism Program. Apple, Google and Microsoft were all listed and the document clearly stated they were all willing participants. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the mock outrage of these corporations since being exposed.

I'd choose Sailfish OS in preference to Android, iOS or Windows Phone given a similar choice of hardware.

Do you really compare Jolla to Samsung? Jolla CEO said once, their target  to sell 1 Million phones!! Do you think Tizen target is similar?

But the point is that at the moment Jolla can sell phones and be closer their goal every day, while there are ZERO phones with Tizen sold and it is not going to change in the near future and no one knows when (and if at all) this zero might change to ONE.

However, I think Tizen is doing good in wearable, smart homes, smart TV etc.. 

Maybe I've missed something but which TVs and home appliance devices on the market are with Tizen?

Tomi Ahonen wrote nice article on Tizen few days ago. He said that if Samsung shifted all their dump phones business line to Tizen, then Tizen will be the 3rd OS with something like 7-10% share... He thinks Tizen is not doing but still has a chance

While at the same time Huawei boss says that Tizen has no chance: http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/25/richard-yu-wsj-interview/

On the other side, Android is not improving in security and privacy,

Android is built to be hacked.  “Researchers find way to hack Gmail with 92 percent success rate”

On that article, the Researchers think that android is designed this way, to be vulnerable  

So... buy Jolla :) another thing is that as Android is the most popular, there are lot of people hacking it so we have lots of bugs found and so on. I'm not defending Android as I don't like that OS either. But hacking Tizen at the moment is pointless as there are almost no devices so why would someone like to hack it? You know it is like supply and demand on the market.

I don't know, I feel you are defending Jolla for some reasons not related to business point of view. Maybe you like Finland like I do :)

I wish good luck for the Finnish guys but I don’t think they will make it to the 1 million target

It does not matter if Jolla has a device and Tizen not. There are tens of Asian brands that no one heard about making phones and tablets for sometimes now.

Yes, Tizen wearable is ahead .. Tizen Gear is way better than android wear. That’s a fact

Yes, Tizen smart TV the first to support Unity Games… Again, Tizen is ahead

Yes, Tizen would be the first OS in fridges, washing machines & other stuff Samsung makes

So, Yes, Tizen is doing well in IoT things

I read the article that Huawei boss says Tizen has no chance. He does not give any reason why. Chinese are doing well in android, they started to feel the money but they can’t sell WP mobiles..! why?

Maybe he meant like we have "no chance" to make profit from Tizen now because he said they were not making profits from WP?

I don’t think Samsung does not know that they will not make any profit from Tizen mobiles in the next 2-3 years and they have to spend a lot …

Tha’ts the point, I would buy Jolla if it is more secure but sure we don’t know yet. It runs android apps, maybe it Jolla used a lot of android source code? Maybe Jolla has similar structure to android? Maybe Jolla is different only from the outside? I don’t know but I know Tizen is different and Tizen was applied to pass the Russian security certificate, so can Jolla do the same, trying to proof it is safer OS?

"I read the article that Huawei boss says Tizen has no chance. He does not give any reason why. Chinese are doing well in android, they started to feel the money but they can’t sell WP mobiles..! why?"

No company has yet been able to sell WP in substantial quantities, Nokia died trying. Maybe peoples experience of Windows on their PC was enough to put them off having anything Microsoft on their phones. I've only ever seen two Windows Phones in the wild.

"I wish good luck for the Finnish guys but I don’t think they will make it to the 1 million target"

Jolla do stand a much better chance now they've partnered with 3. I think the problem they have right now is their hardware is considerably more expensive than is justified by the spec, only Apple are 'cool' enough to get away with that. If the deal with 3 results in Sailfish OS on generic Asian hardware at sensible prices then it's going to be a much easier sell.

Did you notice the guy from Huawei said the carriers wanted them to make Tizen phones? I found that an interesting statement, carriers really are looking for a viable alternative to Android/iOS. I think Jolla are really more interested in licensing Sailfish OS and providing associated services (branding, carrier service integration, etc...) than they are in manufacturing hardware. Maybe Jolla can negotiate a similar deal with Foxconn as BlackBerry recently have where Foxconn take on part of the cost/risk of building devices in exchange for a cut of the profits if the venture takes off.

Maybe people don't like Windows any more but I see Microsoft as a good guy comparing to Google

I think the failure of WP because they didn't offer a real reason for people to switch & the WP7 was lacking and missing basic features old nokias had. They created bad reputation in the first 2 years.

I think Samsung don't want to repeat the WP7 mistakes. They want an ecosystem even if they go to the market late. The first impression going to be important and media won't give any mercy

The Tizen OS UX is not looking any impressive, people won't switch now. They need designers like what Tomi Ahonen wrote.

I think there some countries/carriers looking for 3rd ecosystem and "some" want it to be really fully open source and "maybe" they want non-US controlled OS for political reasons.

Now China going to release 2 OSs... one for desktop (ubuntu clone I guess) and the other for mobile (android close I guess). They are so worried about their security, so does Russia and some EU countries.

Jolla, Tizen, Ubuntu or ... If it really more secure then they will find they way to "some" market if backed by giant and local companies.

I think Samsung should put hands with Blackberry and merge Tizen with BB10 with focus on security. They can cooperate and bring "very good" alternative mobile OS

"I see Microsoft as a good guy comparing to Google"

It's like choosing between a poke in the eye or a kick in the nuts, isn't it? :-)

What do you think of Firefox OS? Amongst my collection of smartphones I have the ZTE Open C running Firefox OS and a Huawei Ascend of very similar spec running Android 4.1, between these two devices Firefox OS is actually smoother than Android, I've been very pleasantly surprised by it. I doubt it will be so smooth on some of the ultra-low spec devices that are being released in India and Latin America though, it may well get a bad reputation it doesn't deserve because of the low grade hardware being used.

Yeah :)

I have not tried FireFox OS.. I don't know much about it. Can I make cash developing for FireFox OS or Jolla or ..?

I read very interesting article on FT.com “Apps: Growing pains”

Devs golden time is over, whose is going bring some cash to app developers can win the 3^rd OS war. I don't see anyone else willing to spend direct cash but Samsung... and maybe Microsoft

Devs in 2 years will be looking elsewhere than android.. it is not making real income for them. If Samsung can do it.. Tizen can do it

Tomi Ahonen tweeted that the median income of the developers is 1500 per year nowadays... ! Can I make more with Jolla? I would port all my apps for sure

Yes, the money will be in services not apps. Apps or mobile websites will just be a front end to a service; mobile payments, voip, secure messaging, retail, subscription games, location based services,etc... The better performing browsers become the less relevant the underlying OS will become and the less appealing developing native apps becomes. We may then have a contest of security and stability rather than a contest of 'ecosystems'.

As an aside Mozilla just announced in a blog post as of version 2.1 Firefox OS will give users granular control over app permissions. Another good step.

Yes, I agree.. 

Good move by FireFox OS..